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	<title>Comments on: Automated Testing Will Make You Happier</title>
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	<link>http://www.scottporad.com/2009/09/24/automated-testing-will-make-you-happier/</link>
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		<title>By: An Example Showing How Test Automation Saves Time and Improves Quality at Scott Porad</title>
		<link>http://www.scottporad.com/2009/09/24/automated-testing-will-make-you-happier/comment-page-1/#comment-1061</link>
		<dc:creator>An Example Showing How Test Automation Saves Time and Improves Quality at Scott Porad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 20:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottporad.com/?p=987#comment-1061</guid>
		<description>[...] one comment  After yesterday&#8217;s post on reaching a milestone on the way to our test automation goals, I thought I would share with you an example on why test automation makes so much [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] one comment  After yesterday&#8217;s post on reaching a milestone on the way to our test automation goals, I thought I would share with you an example on why test automation makes so much [...]</p>
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		<title>By: scottporad</title>
		<link>http://www.scottporad.com/2009/09/24/automated-testing-will-make-you-happier/comment-page-/#comment-270</link>
		<dc:creator>scottporad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottporad.com/?p=987#comment-270</guid>
		<description>The answer to your first question is that developers should be writing the tests, not testers.  It will take the person who wrote the code 1/10th of the time to write the tests over another person later on.

We had a history of development where there were developers, and like all people, developers made mistakes.  So, we hired testers to check their work.  As test automation as come along, now we get special &quot;software developers in test&quot; to write the tests.

That&#039;s a step in the right direction, but I still think it&#039;s not right.  We should get rid of testers and SDETs and have developers write the tests.  Instead of having 1x dev and 1x tester have 2x dev/test.  The output of features will be the same, but the quality will be better.

At Cheezburger, devs write all the tests.  We have one &quot;user tester&quot; who does all his testing through the browser.  His job is to simply act like a user and ensure the site is working right.  We also integrate him very early on in the design process, so that he can eliminate &quot;bugs&quot; before any code is written by simply saying, &quot;guys, to a user, that won&#039;t make any sense&quot;.

In regard to your 2nd and 3rd questions:
&lt;ol&gt;
	&lt;li&gt;Doing tests &quot;well&quot; means being thorough.  You have to think of every case, even the ones that are unlikely.&lt;/li&gt;
	&lt;li&gt;Yes, the web is difficult.  We use Selenium with some success, and there&#039;s an neat startup in Seattle called &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.browsera.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Browsera&lt;/a&gt; that&#039;s doing some really cool stuff with the visual validation of pages.   We tried them out in early alpha, and it proved helpful.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The answer to your first question is that developers should be writing the tests, not testers.  It will take the person who wrote the code 1/10th of the time to write the tests over another person later on.</p>
<p>We had a history of development where there were developers, and like all people, developers made mistakes.  So, we hired testers to check their work.  As test automation as come along, now we get special &#8220;software developers in test&#8221; to write the tests.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a step in the right direction, but I still think it&#8217;s not right.  We should get rid of testers and SDETs and have developers write the tests.  Instead of having 1x dev and 1x tester have 2x dev/test.  The output of features will be the same, but the quality will be better.</p>
<p>At Cheezburger, devs write all the tests.  We have one &#8220;user tester&#8221; who does all his testing through the browser.  His job is to simply act like a user and ensure the site is working right.  We also integrate him very early on in the design process, so that he can eliminate &#8220;bugs&#8221; before any code is written by simply saying, &#8220;guys, to a user, that won&#8217;t make any sense&#8221;.</p>
<p>In regard to your 2nd and 3rd questions:</p>
<ol>
<li>Doing tests &#8220;well&#8221; means being thorough.  You have to think of every case, even the ones that are unlikely.</li>
<li>Yes, the web is difficult.  We use Selenium with some success, and there&#8217;s an neat startup in Seattle called <a href="http://www.browsera.com/" rel="nofollow">Browsera</a> that&#8217;s doing some really cool stuff with the visual validation of pages.   We tried them out in early alpha, and it proved helpful.</li>
</ol>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Franklin Webber</title>
		<link>http://www.scottporad.com/2009/09/24/automated-testing-will-make-you-happier/comment-page-1/#comment-269</link>
		<dc:creator>Franklin Webber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 21:56:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottporad.com/?p=987#comment-269</guid>
		<description>With automated web testing, how do you manage the steep time requirements of test execution vs coverage?

What are some practices that you find to do automation &quot;well&quot; in your particular domain?

As the world of the web seems particularly brittle and you have some particularly unique challenges with multiple components.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With automated web testing, how do you manage the steep time requirements of test execution vs coverage?</p>
<p>What are some practices that you find to do automation &#8220;well&#8221; in your particular domain?</p>
<p>As the world of the web seems particularly brittle and you have some particularly unique challenges with multiple components.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: An Example Showing How Test Automation Saves Time and Improves Quality &#171; Scott Porad</title>
		<link>http://www.scottporad.com/2009/09/24/automated-testing-will-make-you-happier/comment-page-1/#comment-268</link>
		<dc:creator>An Example Showing How Test Automation Saves Time and Improves Quality &#171; Scott Porad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottporad.com/?p=987#comment-268</guid>
		<description>[...] Speaking        Automated Testing Will Make You&#160;Happier [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Speaking        Automated Testing Will Make You&nbsp;Happier [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Louie</title>
		<link>http://www.scottporad.com/2009/09/24/automated-testing-will-make-you-happier/comment-page-1/#comment-267</link>
		<dc:creator>Louie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 05:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottporad.com/?p=987#comment-267</guid>
		<description>Funny that you mention Microsoft research. They certainly take their time releasing a product (Vista), but I wouldn&#039;t call their code bug free :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny that you mention Microsoft research. They certainly take their time releasing a product (Vista), but I wouldn&#8217;t call their code bug free <img src='http://www.scottporad.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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